Teaching Yoga as Black Women
TWO BLACK GIRLS TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING PODCAST: EPISODE 3
This episode Dee and I share what it’s like to teach yoga as black women and how we use our yoga to navigate racism, privilege, and the wellness world.
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Welcome to The Two Black Girls Talk About Everything, podcasts. I’m Dianne.
And I’m Dee, and we’re going to be talking about everything.
We’re going to be talking about yoga, and fashion, and just everything Black girls talk about. We’re here to share our conversation with you.
Hey, welcome back. Episode Two.
How are you?
I’m good, how are you?
I haven’t seen you in a while. What have you been up to? What have you been talking about? Who are you? What’s going on? Working?
What’s going on? Christmas holidays, Deevine Intentions is crazy busy.
Holiday [00:00:50 inaudible].
We’re taping this podcast prior to the holidays. We had a lot going on. Dee’s got her jewelry going on. I’ve been doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes to launch some cool stuff coming up in January, but we thought we take a pause. In our last podcast, we talked about some of our favorite podcasts and the number one favorite podcasts that we have is the Yoga Is Dead podcast.
I onboarded on that podcast pretty quickly on. They have done a series called the Afterlife and I moderated that very first podcast. You can hear me talking to Tejal and Jesal on the Yoga’ is Dead podcast. We’re moderating the very first one where they talked about who killed yoga and they talked about White women killed yoga. I knew that they were going to get a lot of pushback.
Of course. Yeah.
It’s a bold statement.
It’s not an untrue statement but they qualify the statement. If you listen to the podcast, we talk about how the dominant culture has affected people of color’s either entry into yoga, their perception of yoga, how they’re treated in yoga, and they share their lived experience. On the Afterlife, they’re reviewing what’s going on afterward. Dee had said to me, “Did you see the, the message that Tejal had put up on her Instagram?” We are way past when she put this up. She put this up back in November and she was talking about how the backlash was from the dominant culture that we should not be talking about when we are marginalized on the yoga mat.
That’s right. To stay silent basically. Like she said, was to put a smile on your face and just move along.
Yeah. That people are having a bad day and we should just be quiet when we are continued to be marginalized that she was concerned when she goes back to her community in Michigan, that she’s not going to be welcomed in spaces because she is articulating or speaking truth to power of the experience of being a woman of color. Let’s be clear, a South Asian woman of color whose culture this is, speaking about how she’s been treated on the yoga mat. Some of assumptions people make about yoga. Some of the appropriation that happens in yoga, and that we just assume people are having a bad day and ignore that?
You know what? I’m going to say it, it’s going to get me backlash but I’m just going to say, it sounds like a lot of White women, White people wellness whining. If you are encouraged to look at your own bias and how you show up in the world and how that affects others, we’ve already been quiet for too long.
People of color have already put a smile on our face and put up with it, and try really hard or have been trained by the dominant culture to not upset the dominant culture. But how are you ever going to grow or learn if we don’t learn, or if you’re not told, if you’re not made aware of your impact?
We talked about that in the last podcast as well. I messaged her or commented on her post after I listened to it and I told her that, “You have to continue speaking your truth.” Just because somebody tells you about their experience and you don’t agree with it, it doesn’t mean they didn’t experience that. That was not their experience with something. Sometimes, we all know from personal experiences that when we are triggered or something hits a nerve, there is a reason behind that. It doesn’t always necessarily have to do with the person that we are backlashing at.
Right? It’s our job to take personal responsibility and figure out why is that bothering you?
That’s hard work, right? In the last podcast, I said growth continues. I don’t know if you remember but at the end, we were talking about pet peeves. I forgot to ask Dee about her pet peeve and then I made the joke, “Because it’s always all about me,” because sometimes it is. Can be.
You’re alllowed. You’re allowed.
Sometimes I’m a little self focused, I’m not going to lie. I’m not going to lie.
You’re allowed. I don’t judge you.
I appreciate that. She’s my sister. But it was really interesting to me when you get in your feelings about something, what is that about? That’s my self-study. That’s my [00:05:15 inaudible]. The minute I have a visceral reaction to something, the first thing that I say to myself is, “Whoa, what is this be?”
“What’s the issue with me?”
Yeah. “Whoa, what is this about? Why do I feel this way? Why am I getting upset? Why am I triggered?” I get triggered a lot, and I think I even said in the last podcast as part of my pet peeve, if I get triggered, all my kindness, all my sympathy, all my empathy, might go out the window because I’m really hurt in that moment, and I have to in some way, protect myself. I told a story in teacher training a few years ago where I was coming out of Quesada which is our version of Chipotle here in Canada. I think it’s a Canadian franchise. I don’t know if they have it in the States, Quesada. It’s like Chipotle. It’s the same thing as Chipotle.
I was coming out of Chipotle with my burrito bowl and I was walking to my car and this woman was telling a joke. She was getting into her car in front of Shoppers Drug Mart, which is our CVA, your CVS if you’re listening in America. Was telling a joke to her partner and saying, “What do you call a Black person?” as I was walking by? I was like, “Whoa, what do you call a Black person?” I go, “No, finish the joke bitch.” That’s what I said because I was really mad. Then she said the joke and he laughed and they both looked at me and then I threw my burrito at their windshield, which was not smart because I paid for that burrito and I wanted to eat that burrito. But then I turned around and I said, something really horrible back. I won’t repeat it because it was just terrible what I said back.
Then I beat myself up for a week about it because I wasn’t being yogic in the moment. But I can’t let people tell racist jokes and just assume, “They don’t know no better. I’ll give them a pass,” because me not saying something allows that behavior to continue. Allows them to get away with something. It’s clear they didn’t see me walking up because when I startled her, when she turned to look at me and had the nerve to say, “Oh, I’m sorry,” you’re not sorry or you wouldn’t have said it in the first place. Then for him to laugh and look at me and then some other White dude came out a Shopper’s Drug Mart and snickered at me. Right there, I had three microaggressions from the dominant culture I’m just to assume that they’re having a bad day or that they don’t know better so I have to be compassionate to that?
That type of behavior and those telling those jokes, didn’t start at that second.
It didn’t start. These behaviors don’t start that day so it’s not a bad day. It’s like a bad life, right?
That’s how I look at it. It’s like having a child, right?
Behaviors or whatever things that they learn, they learn them.
And they’ve learned them from a long time ago. These ideas had been set. I didn’t bother going back to Quesada because I’m not going to pay another –I don’t know how much I paid for my burrito, but whatever. I threw that burrito on the windshield of their car and then I fully expected to have a police situation but then I got in my car and like drove off. But I just thought to myself, “Really? People are supposed to just be quiet?” There are a lot of microaggressions and a lot of abuse that happens in yoga. Now that we have the Me Too movement that’s been around and we’ve seen what’s happened with Harvey Weinstein and we’ve seen women speak up about things we’ve been silent about forever, there’s going back now.
If people are having a bad day and that, and we’re supposed to give them compassion and this is supposed to be Ahimsa, I think it’s not Ahimsa to yourself because you have been hurt and people need to know. It’s violence against the person that you’re not enlightening about the behavior that is problematic, that will continue to be problematic within the culture and create uncomfortable situations for everybody. We, as people of color, have been uncomfortable for a long time in making the dominant culture feel comfortable about their sexism, about their racism, about the way they treat people.
What’s interesting, this makes me think of a conversation we had when we were running in the summertime, you as a person who is of a lighter complexion, who has light-skinned privilege, meaning you can be in spaces sometimes you’re racially ambiguous. When I see you, I see a Black girl, but we are looking for each other. We can feel each other. But other times you’re in spaces where people don’t know who you are or mistake you for White, and the things that you must hear.
Oh yeah. I was telling you, my whole life, and it’s funny because I actually experienced it and I’ve thought about it so much. When my hair was shorter, filled it with the curl iron, I used to sport a Halle Berry short pixie cut.
That pixie cut, yeah.
My hair actually looked straight then the lighter complexion.
And the lighter eyes.
Yeah, the lighter eyes. People would let loose. They would let loose. They would say things because I was falling under the radar of the racism.
You were White passing in that moment and people didn’t know. If that is happening to Dee, is she supposed to say nothing because it makes people feel uncomfortable? It makes dominant culture feel uncomfortable. This to me, smacks of what we’re seeing going on in the US with the rise of — I’m going to call it Trumpism. Where somehow people speaking up about injustices that have been happening to them is somehow an injustice to the person who’s perpetuating it. You are not oppressed by being told that your behavior is problematic. You are not being oppressed when you’re — I don’t care if you’re having a bad day. If you’ve done something that is horrible and needs to be brought to your attention, it needs to be brought to your attention.
Yeah, it needs to be called out.
It needs to be called out.
So that the next time you think twice about it.
Yeah. You’re more mindful.
You’re more mindful, you think twice about it and if you decide to do it again, then that’s all you.
Yeah. This is a problem. This is problematic. Right? Technically what Tejal is saying is you’re asking people to spiritual bypass. Love and light. Love and light. Love and light. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Love and light in whose favor?
Right? Love and light and no action. Because another word that we use in yoga is called karma. The definition of karma is action. What action are you taking to make spaces more equitable and more inclusive? What actions are you taking instead of being in your feelings about being called out about problematic behavior? What action are you taking to actually change that behavior? I’m getting in my feelings now. Yoga is about liberation.
Yoga is about liberation, and liberating yourself from bad behaviors that create problems in the community is what we’re looking at. We want to liberate spaces so that people feel safe, and things feel equitable, and all bodies can show up. Not only on yoga mats because that’s a microcosm of the larger world, but in the larger world. Asking people of color to be silent on experiences that they’re having is oppression. It’s not liberation. If your feelings are hurt, because you’re called out on bad behavior that is sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist. I got called out for being ageist a couple of weeks ago I didn’t even realize I was doing it, and I was horrified. Absolutely horrified. I want people to not be quiet about things. I don’t want people not to call me out when I’ve done something that’s shitty.
I want to know. If you don’t want to know and your feelings are hurt, that shit’s on you.
Yeah. That’s it like, because there’s a reason. There’s a reason.
There’s a reason. Why is the burden always on people of color to make White folks feel better about themselves? Why is that our job? Why is that our job? I just don’t understand why we can’t acknowledge White supremacy. Why we can’t acknowledge bad behavior, especially in yoga, when we’re talking about things that are supposed to bring unity and connection. If you don’t know you’re hurting somebody then we can’t be unified or connected.
We can’t be. We can’t be. You need to know so that when you’re stepping forward and you’re showing up on the mat, you’re not perpetuating harm, which is the violence.
The violence, yeah.
That was so hard to hear her talk about.
I know. I was shocked when I heard that.
I knew when that podcast came out that they were going to go so much feedback. I knew.
Within the first five minutes of the podcast, I subscribed to it.
Right? I went on their Patreon.
How can I give you money [00:14:48 crosstalk].
It’s not as though they’re just making these accusations, they’ve got solid-
There’s receipts. Yes.
Behind what they saying. It’s not just a bunch of — They’ve done their research.
They’ve done their homework. This is their lived experience.
This was, like you said, their lived experience. So even if you don’t agree with it, it does not mean that it’s not their experience.
And that it’s not valid.
That it’s not true and it’s not valid.
Absolutely. 100%. At the time the podcast first aired, I was teaching a 200-hour teacher training and I made them listen to it, and my whole teacher training were White folks.
I was told about it in my teacher training. That’s how I found it.
I think everybody should talk about it. I spoke to your teacher trainer and I said, “What was your overall reaction?” She said, “Everybody in my teacher training really embraced it and understood where people were coming from and were really supportive of it.” I didn’t have that similar experience which I find shocking because I’m pretty transparent about who I am. If you go on my Instagram, on my social media, if you talk to me, if you follow anything that I do, I’m always talking about race, and equity, and culture, and diversity, and accessible spaces. I am always and have always been talking about this. The very first podcast, the very first article, I should say, or blog post that launched me into activism, that made me call myself an accidental activist, was Yoga Isn’t Just for Skinny White Girls, which was a blog post I had written in 2012 for Elephant Journal.
It talked about my experience as a Black person in White yoga spaces. In White women’s wellness spaces. It was amazing to me, it went viral in about 15 minutes. I just remember getting these emails saying, “I’s hit this many views. It’s hit this many reads.” If you go back to it now on Elephant Journal, I think it has something like 2,500 comments. The majority of those comments are people who are feeling the exact same way as I was feeling in that moment. Those are the things that made the yoga industry change. Those are the reasons why you see people like my friend, Amber Karnes who was on the cover of Yoga Journal this month showing a plus size body because people spoke up and people made noise people said, “We are tired of seeing one homogeneous image of yoga.”
For the longest time when you’d look at Yoga Journal, you would see the same picture all the time with just a different person with different color hair, in a different outfit. If you go through and lined up all the front covers of those issues, you couldn’t tell one from the next, right?
I’ve seen it in the fitness industry. Yoga as well, fitness industry. I remember being a young girl, when I started to getting into weightlifting and wanting to compete and just seeing the same.
All the time.
All the time, cover, flip through the pages. I swear, it was like the same person.
They were interchangeable.
Interchangeable. So we speak up about this stuff then we start to see people, like I said, like Amber, on the cover. We saw somebody who was an amputee and a man on the cover. We saw in the Running Magazine back in I think 2012 or 2014, Mira Valario who is an ultra marathoner who’s in a plus size body, was on the cover of Running Magazine. The only way that we make change and make spaces more equitable and alleviate oppression is that we speak truth to power.
If you have happen to get your power your feelings happen to get hurt, that shit’s on you. Go back to your community and talk about what it is that upsets you and think about how to change it.
It isn’t the job of the people voicing what they believe to stroke the ego. To stroke your ego.
Absolutely. Or to be silent because you’re having a bad day.
That’s right, and just not say anything and allow it to continue happening.
That’s violence I don’t think we’re practicing yoga if we’re doing those things. We’re not giving people a clear pass the liberation. I’m going to liberate you from your bias. I’m going to liberate you from your small-mindedness. I’m going to liberate you from your lack of awareness. I’m going to liberate you from hurting other people by letting you know, these are the things we’re experiencing as people who are constantly other. Whether you’re a person of size, whether you’re a person of color, whether you’re a person who lives with a disability, whether you are a person of an interesting age, there’s lots of ways where we are othered in the world. We’re supposed to just be quiet about it? That makes no sense to me.
It makes no sense to me.
And it’s boring.
Who doesn’t want to see these things? It’s so boring. Aren’t we tired of the same thing over and over and over?
Over, and over, and over again. I’ve said this a lot. I don’t know where I’ve heard this before but diversity is the spice of life. Diversity of thought, diversity of perspective, diversity of skin color, diversity of culture. All of those things are so interesting. I got TiKToK because you were on TiKToK and you were posting all these videos. I’m like, “What is this thing? What is she doing?” I stumbled across TiKToK-
Not dancing. I don’t dance.
No, but you were doing yoga stuff and-
All kinds of stuff.
I’m not dancing.
I want to but I can’t. Now we’re going to go left.
Taking the whole trying to get it down.
To get it down. My son’s really good at it at it, at editing the video. I don’t even know how to do that. But I I’m so sad as a Black woman, as a Black girl, I didn’t get the double Dutch gene and I didn’t get the twerk gene.
I got the twerk gene.
Did you get twerk gene?
I got it.
I’m so jealous. I’m working on it because I found a YouTube video on how to twerk. Too much back. I put too much back in it. I’m going to work it out and I’m figuring it out but I watched a torquing video today and I don’t know why I got on this topic, but I looked up a twerking video just because I want to learn how to twerk properly. I just figured, I’m West Indian. I’m pretty sure we graded that whole thing. Every carnival, every prop over, every cabana, people are twerking. We never used to call it twerking. Twerking got the name twerking maybe in the last 10 years or so but we were always doing it. What did we call it? We call it whining.
You can probably twerk.
It doesn’t look the same as Lizzo and that’s what I want to look like.
Lizzo, I love you.
I love you Lizzo. We need you to talk on our podcast. I’m going to write down her name.
Put it down. Put it down. It’ll happen. Lizzo, we’re writing you down.
We’re writing you down. We want to talk to you.
On our intentional list of people we want to talk to.
We want to talk to Lizzo.
Because when you put it down, it’s going to happen.
It’s going to happen. I put it in writing, pen to paper. That was our little sidetrack but coming back around, yoga is about liberation, and being quiet never liberated anybody. One of those great cliches that we hear, well-behaved women rarely make history.
You know the yoga podcast Women are Going to Make History, in influencing the culture and changing the culture to allow all of us to feel like we belong. To feel like we’re part of this and to make people more aware. It is our job or our Dharma, our divine calling as yoga teachers, to help shape and shift consciousness. You cannot do that by being quiet. Could you imagine it back in the 60s, Black folks just decided, “We’re not going to bother with the civil rights movement.”
Yeah, just keep on doing-
We’re going to just keep on living in Jim Crow because we don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings.
We’re just going to keep sitting at the back of the bus.
Yes not being at the lunch counter, or they were silent and didn’t leave. You wouldn’t be here. If your family didn’t get angry and didn’t rise up, your family wouldn’t have come here. You wouldn’t be a sixth generation Canadian as a Black person. That wouldn’t have happened. We wouldn’t have any of the things that we have now. Women wouldn’t have had the right to vote if women were just quiet because men were having a bad day. Women wouldn’t have had the right to vote. Schools wouldn’t be integrated. Women’s rights wouldn’t happen. The Me Too movement wouldn’t happen. “He’s having a bad day that’s why he grabbed her ass. Just be quite.”
Just be quiet. Just be quiet.
You’re bringing violence to the workplace by complaining that you’re being harassed or that we’re creating a hostile environment for people to work in. What kind of bullshit is this? Again, this sounds like a lot of White people whining. Not all White people but the people who are pushing back against the podcast.
Yeah. That actually have the nerve to say anything.
That’s the stuff that’s emboldened by racism. That’s the stuff that’s emboldened by White supremacy. I’m sure we’re going to get comments on this podcast and I’m okay with that.
Of course. Me too. Bring it. I’m not here to, like I said, stroke anybody’s ego.
No. I’m not here to be respectable. I’m not here to be likable. I’m here to make you think about yourself. I’m here to make change so I don’t have to worry about my kid in the world.
We’re here to speak our truth and to talk about the things that we want to talk about.
And our personal experiences.
Because it’s our podcast and not yours.
Not yours, and I’m speaking to the people that have felt the same way as myself or Dianne. That’s who we’re relating to oo if you don’t like it, unsubscribe.
Yeah, my feelings won’t be hurt none.
No, mine neither.
We have to give a voice to the people who feel voiceless. Right? My side thought on TiKToK was the whole twerking and dancing thing is I have learned more about indigenous culture on TiKToK. I stumbled across indigenous TiKToK and it is forever educating me on things I had no idea about. I’m really sad about it because I’m a Canadian that didn’t learn this in school. I think my kids are learning it now but I follow indigenous creators, I follow LGBTQIA plus creators. I follow everybody and anybody because I really want to learn more about this experience, right? It’s been an incredible thing to be open to the possibility of hearing somebody else’s perspective and somebody else’s lived experience. It makes me a more full human. It makes me a more empathetic human. If my feelings are getting hurt over stuff, it’s an opportunity for me to learn about myself.
It means there’s room for self-growth.
My yoga teacher says this all the time, Dr. Gail Parker, this is a shout out to you, “Growth continues.” If we stop growing and stop learning, what happens? What is that a symptom of? What happens to things that stop growing?
I’m very sad about this. I was really bothered by this. I haven’t been on the gram much today, or if I have, it’s been pretty self-centered. I haven’t really scrolled but I’m very sad that this is what it’s come to. That the yoga community is trying to silence the voices of people who feel othered or people who are pushed in the margins of this practice. Because it’s only really recently that we’ve been seeing images other than thin, White able-bodied young women doing yoga. This is a very recent phenomenon that we’re seeing more diversity. That we’re hearing about yoga teachers doing things that they shouldn’t be doing, touching students in ways that are inappropriate. All of this stuff has been kept silent for so long now that we’re bringing that light to the surface, you want us to be quiet?
We’ve got a lot of time. We’ve got a lot of time to make up for.
Stop, sit down, be quiet.
Be quiet and listen.
Listen. Listen. When people tell you this has happened to them, it’s not for you to say it hasn’t or we’re creating violence. It’s for you to listen and go, “Wow. I had no idea that this is happening in the world.” I want to be a part of the change. The question is where do you want to be? When history is written, where do you want to be? On what side of history do you want to be? I watched, her name is Ruby, I’m forgetting her last name. She was President Lyndon Johnson sent the national guard to walk her to school. Ruby Bridges. For a long time, when she ascended to vice-president, Kamala Harris, there was a picture floating around Instagram of Kamala Harris walking and the shadow of her walking was Ruby Bridges.
I went back and watched the video on YouTube of the governor of, I want to say Georgia, correct me if I’m wrong, standing in the doorway and resisting having Ruby come into class. 200 to 400 people, angry people, angry White folks, showing up to attack a five-year-old little girl for wanting to go to school. These people were bringing a likeness of Ruby in a coffin and showing it and telling them that they were going to kill a five-year-old child for going to school. I watched the vitriol of those people, screaming at that little girl. Okay. A lot of those people are still alive today, including Ruby Bridges, who you can go on YouTube and look her up and she will speak — She’s recently spoken to that experience. A lot of those people are still alive. How do you feel seeing that now? Are you proud of yourself now? When we look back on that in history, you see yourself screaming at a five-year-old girl, a little girl, who all she wants to do is go to school.
Go to school, yeah.
Like everybody else. Should we have been quiet about that, people having a bad day or a bad life? We are allowing them to do that?
My father, and I’ve told you, Dianne, my father went to a segregated school here in Essex County until he was in grade five and he is 63 years old.
Exactly. So everybody was aware of that. People are still alive. This is not a long time ago.
So when I say we’ve got a lot of time to make up for, we do.
We do. That’s not that long ago. That is not that long ago. I am 50 years old and I remember back to when it was okay to call people names and there was nothing you could do about it.
There was nothing you could do, yeah.
It was okay for people to bully me there was nothing I could do about it. My parents would teach me, sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me. That shit’s a lie and we know it. That other stuff chips away at your soul. I’m really, really discouraged and sad that people are telling us that we need to be quiet. If we had felt empowered enough to speak up earlier, maybe things would have been different.
I would hope so.
Right? I’m really interested to see when we write history 50 years from now, about this time. Before your blip.
What it say?
Yeah, I’m curious.
Will it be biased?
I am wondering, 71% of Americans who voted to continue the living nightmare that has been the Trump regime for the past four years, when they write about you in history, how will you be perceived? When they write about you supporting fascism? When they write about this cultive personality.
This is the guys. Obviously, it is a thing. We just witnessed it, what, three weeks ago?
It feels like 10 years ago. It’s just going on, and on, and on.
This is a thing. Because if it wasn’t-
We wouldn’t be talking about it.
We wouldn’t be talking about it and it would have been done by like midnight that night.
That night. Or because of COVID they had to do the mail-in ballots. They voted on a Tuesday. By Friday, it would have been wrapped. Let’s be honest. By Friday.
Yeah, mail-in votes. I forgot about those.
Yeah, but at least by the end of the week.
At least by the end of the week,.
But I’m saying, without the mail-in votes, it should have been a thing. It should have been done.
Done and over. We’re all exhausted, and we’re all emotional, and we’re all having a bad day, but that doesn’t excuse our bad behavior. It really doesn’t. That doesn’t give us the right to ask other people to be quiet because our feelings are hurt. It doesn’t give us the right. That is the ultimate in White privilege, to ask a person of color, not to speak to their experience.
To be quiet.
Yeah. That is the ultimate.
Just keep smiling.
Yeah. That it’s Ahimsa to do that. That’s spiritual bypassing and I’ll let you know, you’re not practicing yoga.
I think maybe you should find another modality if that’s how you feel. You know what? [00:32:52 inaudible] is nice.
I’ve got some good self-development books-
There you go.
I can refer you to. If you want to attend one of my personal development intension setting classes, we can start working on that.
Exactly, because this is not fair and it isn’t right. I want the Yoga is Dead podcast women, Tejal and Jesal-
Keep it up. Keep it up.
We’re here for you, sister.
We love you guys.
We do, The Two Black Girls talking About Everything, we’re talking about you today. We are all about it and we’re 100% here for it. On that happy note, we are going to leave. Stay tuned. Dee.
Yes, Dianne. Have we talked about everything?
I think we’ve talked about everything. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you guys.
Always let us know if there’s anybody you want us to interview, or if you want to be on the podcast, we’d love to talk to you. Please check us out on our social media handles. I am @diannenondyyogaofficial on Instagram and TikToK and Facebook.
I am @yogi_dee_ on Instagram, or you can follow me @deevineintentions also on Instagram.
Thanks everybody. We’ll talk to you soon.